For Some Damn Reason San Diego Schools Got One of These

"Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast." (twostrokesmoke)
09/10/2014 at 13:55 • Filed to: None

And I'm fuckin' pissed about it. Some of the schools here didn't even have enough money to provide the books for their students when school began also the district can't even afford to keep their buses running and they get this! What. The. Fuck?

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DISCUSSION (34)

Manuél Ferrari > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 13:56

That is fucking stoopid

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 13:58

They got it for free. Not taking money away from anything.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK
09/10/2014 at 14:00

How much do you think it costs to maintain one of these things? Also, this thing has no educational purpose or benefit.

thebigbossyboss > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:00

That does seem like overkill.

Autophile412 - what's the world got in store? > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:00

The article explains that the vehicle was granted to the district. I am assuming that means they got it for free. It was apparently a leftover from military use. I guess it is better than leaving all of the weapons and ammunition behind in Iraq and allowing the enemy to pilfer it all and use against unarmed civilians in a religious genocide attempt.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:03

I used to work on these things. They cost about as much to maintain as a diesel pickup truck. Yes they will have a very limited use and I'm not wild about the militarization of police forces across the country but let's check the outrage a little bit, this thing will not impact the budget of the SDUSD.

Milky > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:04

The fucking police don't need MRAPs. Granted they got it for free, but what is maintenance on one of these? Where in the hell do you even get work done to it? Is the local county bus depot supposed to fix it?

Viggen > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:06

Oh, look at that. Another Caiman that'll be rolled within six months time of police ownership.

jariten1781 > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:06

All school districts are putting together active shooter response plans based on previous school shootings. Assuming an armored vehicle is part of that, then grabbing this for free rather than paying for an up-armored econoline or something is a fiscally responsible move.

ttyymmnn > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:08

For picking up students in the 'hood? Paint that bitch yellow and put some red lights and a stop sign on it. But seriously, that's messed up.

ttyymmnn > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:09

FTA: A heavily armored vehicle is now a part of the San Diego Unified School District Police Department's arsenal, though administrators say it will only be used for rescues.

That sort of makes sense, with all the school shootings these days. I would imagine, though, that response time would be ridiculously long.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Milky
09/10/2014 at 14:09

Actually yes. I used to work on these, most of them use standard Detroit Diesel motors, which are found in lots of buses. They're actually incredibly easy to maintain because they were designed to be maintained by guys in the desert who only have access to hand tools. They're basically just a big truck with a diesel engine and a lot of armor.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Autophile412 - what's the world got in store?
09/10/2014 at 14:10

I think scraping them and selling it off to gillette or whoever to make razors is a better idea than militarizing the FUCKING SCHOOL POLICE! Sorry for yelling, this whole thing has me pissed off on an epic scale.

ly2v8-Brian > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:11

That would make for the most BADASS bookmobile.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > ttyymmnn
09/10/2014 at 14:12

Swat teams exist for this reason. School cops don't need this kind of armament.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > ly2v8-Brian
09/10/2014 at 14:14

I can't actually argue that point.

burntartichoke > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:15

Damn, I never knew collecting lunch money had become so dangerous!

Kinja'd!!!

Milky > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK
09/10/2014 at 14:17

That is probably true, but there is also the fact that the military themselves advised against police using them because they break roads and roll over easily.

And, you know, 1 school shooting a year doesn't mean every damn school needs a MRAP.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > jariten1781
09/10/2014 at 14:17

Shooters don't usually show up with IED's or armor piercing rounds. This is overkill in the worst way. The presence of a vehicle like this is very intimidating. It would only serve to escalate any situation on a psychological level, and that is not responsible behavior.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:19

The shooters at Columbine had a number of IEDs included a Propane tank bomb they had planted earlier and a number of pipe bombs. Do I think this is overkill? Yes. But it's free and will probably never be used.

ACESandEIGHTS > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:22

Kinja'd!!!

"Home of the Warriors"

BaconSandwich is tasty. > jariten1781
09/10/2014 at 14:23

... or you know, spending more money on mental health and counseling related issues. There's no money in that. At least not in the long run.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Milky
09/10/2014 at 14:25

The San Diego Unified School District has over 200 schools, so every school is getting .005 MRAPs. They actually have uses other than going after people too:

"We recognize the public concern over perceived 'militarization of law enforcement,' but nothing could be further from the truth for School Police," Capt. Joe Florentino said in an email.

...

Florentino describes the district's MRAP as the county's only specifically designated victim rescue vehicle. It will be clearly marked "rescue," as well as display large red cross on all sides, similar to an ambulance. It is able to climb up rapid floodwaters, pull down walls or ram through buildings to rescue trapped victims, Florentino said.

Schools police will train with firefighters and paramedics on how to insert medical teams into high-risk zones.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/…

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK
09/10/2014 at 14:27

And it will cost a shit ton of money to keep in the fleet. The other point I am trying to make is that schools are the first point of contact between most school children and the government. It used to be that we were taught that the government, flawed though it may be was there to express the will of the people in the way we run our society. These machines send a very different message. One of enforced compliance. Do what the state says or else we'll use our giganto war machine to change your opinion for you. It isn't a message I want my kids to receive, but it is certainly the one they send.

I don't want my kids to look at the cops and fear them, I don't want them to see them as urban warriors, i want them to see them as public servants and protectors. Warrior's purpose isn't to serve, it is to conquer, and this machine is not the tool of a servant.

rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:31

See, I think this makes sense, because as I understand it there is very little military in San Diego and they probably need this to repel invaders and immigrants. The type of immigrants that might want to GET AN EDUCATION and become good citizens. We can't have that.

If there were, for example, some sort of military base there - even like a Navy base or whatever - then it probably wouldn't be necessary.

jariten1781 > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:31

I agree, I would not argue to approve it. However, I can also see how in good faith people trying to do good things got here.

Situation is a shooter holed up at a known location in a building. It is known that there are a bunch of grade schoolers sheltering in place in another part of the building. Already have a large police response and the school is locked down. You wouldn't want to bring the kids out if they have to traverse in the open where they can be pot-shot targets. You want a way to evacuate the known to you kids before sending in an armed response force to reduce the risk of either collateral damage from the response force or to prevent the shooter from finding them and increasing their kill count or upping the hostage situation. An armored vehicle makes sense in that scenario.

I'd assume the likelihood of that happening to be low, but when it comes to protecting children people have a very low risk tolerance.

Milky > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK
09/10/2014 at 14:32

Yay, they'll paint rescue on the side? Call it what you want, there is still a MRAP where there doesn't need to be a MRAP.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/10/2014 at 14:34

And it will cost a shit ton of money to keep in the fleet.

I keep telling you this isn't true, and I mean it. If you object to this for the other reasons that's valid but stop saying this, it simply isn't true. These vehicles are incredibly simple and incredibly cheap to maintain. When you continue to make false statements like this it cheapens your other arguments.

As to your second point I completely agree but assuming they are telling the truth this is going to be used in very specific roles, such as flood rescue or yes in the event of a school shooting. You have every right to be skeptical, but this is what they are saying about it:

"We recognize the public concern over perceived 'militarization of law enforcement,' but nothing could be further from the truth for School Police," Capt. Joe Florentino said in an email.

...

Schools police will train with firefighters and paramedics on how to insert medical teams into high-risk zones.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK
09/10/2014 at 14:53

I'm not sure where you are, so you may not know this, our school district can't even afford to run the buses they have. That is not an exaggeration. I pass the parking area where the buses sit every day on my way to work. I have no idea if they are being maintained, but I think probably they aren't. And using them for floods? San Diego is on the edge of the desert! Outside of the occasional flash flood, that concern isn't even on the radar out here. Right now, we are in the middle of the worst drought in years, and if we don't have one hell of a wet winter with the el nino that is supposed to happen, we've got about a year of fresh water left before drastic measures will have to be taken. A vehicle that tips over like these, if the crew isn't properly trained to drive them (TRAINING COSTS!) May not be the ideal rescue vehicle. (which, by the way isn't what school police do, anyway.)

sketchcat > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK
09/10/2014 at 15:22

nothing for free boy. maintenance and operation/storage costs!

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > sketchcat
09/10/2014 at 15:26

I've answered this many other times throughout the comments but I'll do it one last time. The maintenance costs on a vehicle like this are very very small. They are reliable standard diesel motors and the vehicles as a whole are easy to work on because they were designed to be serviced in the desert with hand tools. The amount of money they spend on maintenance will probably only slightly exceed what they would spend on a diesel pickup truck.

Money isn't the issue here, militarization of police is. If you believe what the police are saying about how they're going to use it then I don't have a problem with it, if they end up using it like they're using these vehicles in Ferguson then I do have a problem with it.

sketchcat > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK
09/10/2014 at 15:43

no argument from me regarding militarization, i feel the same way.

my reaction is based solely on the hidden costs and long term pain that i reasonably assume are embedded with taking on such a piece of hardware. Its an easy assumption to make given the multi-year history of drama about police and security org. budgets.

Gas, tires and oil are not the whole picture, insurances, training, and other numbers are tied to such a vehicle on the spreadsheets.

how long before these vehicles go EOL? where to they go then?

Autophile412 - what's the world got in store? > Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast.
09/12/2014 at 11:37

I get why you are furious, but as a father of two I would rather the School Police be militarized in some fashion than the actual police. I am an advocate for armed guards at all schools.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > Autophile412 - what's the world got in store?
09/12/2014 at 12:03

I am speaking as a father with two kids in schools in this district. I can deal with an armed guard, but this is some next level shit, man.